Community College Route: transcripts, schedule, and process of graduating

There are many reasons we chose Community College for our daughter, and after completing her first community college class with an A, we are feeling pretty good about ourselves with this decision.

1.  Our local community college is close to our home, is a safe school, Ian swims there, and she's already had plenty exposure to the campus.  

2.  Large fish, small pond.  I am an advocate of being in an academic environment that challenges the student, but also allows their (individual) achievements to be recognized.  Malcolm Gladwell outlines this well in his book, Outliers.  

To switch to another of Gladwell’s favorite metaphors, the point is that being a big fish is very helpful, even when picking the small pond means forgoing the high-status allure of the big pond. Second-rate schools can promote first-rate achievement, whereas more-selective environments can squelch it. 

3.  Texas community colleges and public universities share a common numbering system which enhances transfer of credit.  If the courses taken at the community college have a common number, it is accepted.  Therefore, no time is lost making the transfer.  

However, there are transfers at 1 year, and 2 years.  I plotted out the practical difference for Haley with tentative course-work (which has already been reconsidered and changed).   

The first option is transfer at 2 years - our original plan.  The advantage of this is, it puts Haley at 16.  Transfer to a "far away" University becomes an option (depending on lots of factors).  Also, schools (such as UTD) have automatic acceptance of community college graduates (and/or those with 42+ credits).  However, transfer after TWO years creates a situation where many of the 2nd year courses may not be accepted as major credit. And that is almost a guarantee if the transfer school is prestigious (which would be the only reason to leave home).  Therefore, a year is added to the program.

The second option is a transfer after 1 year with 30 credits.  This is advantageous over less than 30 units because no high-school credentials are necessary.  No SAT/ACT, no AP, no high-school GPA.  As a homeschooled student, it is 'helpful' to not have to 'justify' the transcript, or otherwise 'prove' competency (beyond the TSI, and the ACT she already took - which, BTW, she actually scored above the average incoming score for Xavier Univ of Louisiana freshman, and Prairie View, and TSU).

The second option allows her to get to the University sooner, so that, even IF she takes an "extra" year, that only meant that she either had follow-up chances to maximize success in a class, or had a lighter load to focus on the classes that matter.  Also, she is EAGER to get to a University.

My logic is, try for the 1 year transfer.  Worst case, its a 2nd year transfer.  Winning either way...

4.  Community College (in Texas) is like a secret back-door way of getting into college without all the "high-school drama."  Literally, Haley completely "skipped" high-school, and is "doing high-school" in a truly dual enrolled environment in a class of people who are essentially...in high-school.  BUT she's getting *credit* (real credit, not DE credit) and marks towards completion in a very real and practical way.  This is sans the SAT/ACT.  She was not trying to take SAT II Subject tests, and AP exams, and do the dance to get into a "prestigious" University.  And as soon as I realized this, this CC option became GOLDEN.

5.  Because she can do it NOW.  No waiting.  No age-restrictions.  The process was simple and confusing at the same time:

• Apply online

• Create a transcript (and get it notarized) - transcript must have junior level amount of credits.

• Meet with an advisor

• Take (and pass) the TSI exam. 

• Decide to jump all the way in:  Graduate the student (now senior level of classes on transcript composed the way they recommend online).**  

• Register (online) for courses***

• *Haley had CLEP credit that is $25 to post, and has to be done by the student (with an ID) in person, while enrolled.

• Get a student ID

Register for class and do well.

** Haley's Transcript - created by me.  Complete and submitted.

***schedule considerations:  based on time, gaps, days, teachers, subjects, transferable, prerequisites, interests.

College Algebra Clep

 Congratulations to Haley on a job well done.  Tested OUT of College Algebra.  3 credits done!!

Early college?

From "extending Middle School" to "early college?"

I felt the need to wrap up this blog/book with some written thoughts.  While a picture is worth a 1000 words, actual words can be very helpful too.

This journey began [cue the flutes] ♪ ♫ 'oh...so very long ago'....with a mother who had a "bossy" little girl with no real school-friends, and a mind that moved much faster than she could handle.  She was talkative, and snarky.  In school, she did "well enough" but wasn't *excelling* in a way that the Mother knew she should.

I spent TIME with Haley.  Going over relatively complex concepts in 5th grade (as a supplement to her intermediate school science).  Concepts such as the cardiac cycle.  Embryology.  And action potentials in the nervous system.  She gobbled these concepts up, with almost full understanding after a single explanation.

That could mean one of two things:  I was an AWESOME teacher.  Or she was a BRILLIANT student.

It was likely a combination of both.

As I watched the light dim in her eyes as she began acquiescing to the "expectations" of "the institution," I knew I had to do something.  First I tried to argue *within* the system.  With teacher changes, school leadership challenges, and peers in puberty, it just made more sense to try a "different thing."

In RETROSPECT I realize that we did was essentially pull Haley out of intermediate school, had her skip middle school, and begin high-school at age 10.  At age 10, Haley would have been starting 6th grade had we not pulled her out.  My rationale for doing so at THIS juncture was - if it "didn't work out" I could just put her back into public school seamlessly as a "repeat 6th grader" (who would then be age 11 starting 6th grade for the 2nd time, and all of her "school-friends" would have moved on to middle-school.  This scenario allows her to still be age appropriate, and ALSO not have to "see" old friends "move up" without her.

However, once Haley was out of traditional school, she was able to move at her own rate.  And she gobbled up information quickly.  So I presented her with MORE information.  And she moved rapidly....

***

I say this path is convoluted because I have had to adjust, and readjust my thoughts, plans, and ideas constantly.  And along the way, I've had many angels that taught me how to read the 'tea-leaves' of giftedness.  Everything seemed to happen by happenstance.  The only constant that I was sure of was....my girl was doing well, and we are on the right path.  Even if curves in the path were unpredictable.

For instance, She was motivated to take the ACT.  I was against.  Why take it?  But SHE insisted.  A homeschool buddy in Hybrid School was taking it, and she wanted to have that experience as well.  So she took a practice ACT, and did very well.  Much to my surprise, actually.  Her ultimate score gained her entry into the Talent Searches and their programs.

Likewise, SHE was motivated to take geometry on her own during the summer.  An entire year of geometry (107 lessons) in 12 weeks!!  With a tutor, she did it.  Who am I to hold her back?!!

Soon, it became more apparent to other Mom's in my homeschool circle that Haley was "asynchronous" in her development.  A term I have since come to learn is associated with many profoundly gifted children - Haley included.  So we had her evaluated by a psychologist.  And with her scores, we felt the urgency to really "figure educational thing" out for our girl.

This is when we first started talking about "early college."

But quickly dismissed it because of her...."asynchrony" and the issues we were observing therein.  How could she go off to college if she can't even remember to brush her hair (for instance)?  Much of college "success" is non-academic.  She may be smart, but she's still 12.  And at times, behaves like she's 8.

The way I saw it, she probably could use an EXTRA year to mature to maximize her success at an "away" school.

So I actually "officially" told her that she was a SEVENTH grader (again) as we were "extending middle school" because of this need to mature more well-roundedly.  Afterall, as mentioned, she was 12/13 which is actually the perfectly appropriate age of a 7th grader.  And why not take "advantage" of the fact that she was 'young.'  Other PG/HG moms offered up a pearl of wisdom when I posed this consideration to the forum:  You always err on the side of maintaining options for your child when you are unclear.  And younger = more options.  So that's what I did...

...and it was a HUGE stress relief.  We went from being in HIGH SCHOOL next year, so having an entire year left to prepare.  There were things that "needed to be done" in 8th grade in order to meet an academically competitive timeline for Ivy application readiness by Junior year (3 short years later!!).  Now we had 4 years.  And a Haley in FOUR years will be more competitive than that same Haley in THREE.  She will have an extra year of accomplishments.  More time equals more "cool stuff" to brag about.  Options preserved.

***

The thing about great homeschool educational plans is...
...they frequently change.

No sooner than I "declared" Haley a 7th grader (halfway through 8th grade) she opened up about how annoying preparing for college has been (already!  I'm like, "girl, you ain't seen nuthin' yet!!).  She made it clear that she was not interested in doing (honestly) what "it takes" to go to an Ivy.  She wasn't sure she wanted to spend the next few years "in college prep mode."

This was VERY concerning to me.

So I changed my ENTIRE plan (again!)!

Many of the activities she was involved in (fencing, debate, Olympiads, math competitions, STUCO, school paper, 2nd foreign language, even harp and orchestra) were done with college in mind.  I'm a very goal-oriented person...and my goal was to create a curriculum that was Ivy competitive.  Not that my aspiration was for my child to attend an Ivy, but rather to PREPARE her to be competitive so that option remains.  And in doing so, she'd be competitive for any school, plus scholarships!  Perfect plan!!

But with that plan "scrapped" we stopped everything non-essential - to regroup.  What DO you like?  What don't you like?  What do you miss now that its gone?  How much was me (and my homeschool 'strategy' and how much was something genuine to Haley's desires)?

After the dust settled, I was able to refocus on "what are we going to do next year?"  Which classes?  What is our goal.  SHE doesn't want to "drag this out."  This college prep.  This educational journey.  "Why does it need to take so long?" she asked.

So I decided to go ahead and credential some of her knowledge.  We signed her up for a College Algebra CLEP (which she passed).  I went up to the Community College to investigate having her take math and science up there (which would be cheaper than the private tutors and would credential the courses).  And marinated on the idea of dual credits vs early college admission.



Pros vs Cons.

Pros:
The student has the opportunity to take more than 6-8 credit hours.
The student can take remediation courses if necessary.
The student is DONE with high-school.
The student is eligible for *college* programs and scholarships, etc.
Credits obtained count towards a BS or BA.
(for MY child) her classmates will be older and more interested in their coursework.


Cons
She would need to take and pass the Texas Success Initiative (TSI) which is another hoop (she did this with no problem, so it was actually nothing to really worry about).

There may be some "participation rules ages" (whereby the child "becomes ineligible upon high-school graduation) with regards to math competitions, Olympiads, and social clubs like Jack and Jill, Rhoers, and Mocha Moms.

The grades obtained COUNT!!!

She cannot go "away" so her options are limited to community college (initially) and then (since she'll only be 15 yo) to colleges/universities in the DFW metroplex (so Ivys are out, and West Coast is out).

Freshman scholarships are forfeited (potentially).  But with the local available options charging in at about $1000/month, this isn't a HUGE con.

Potentially, she could be "rejected" from her current social circles.

***

The PROS outweigh the CONS!!  Onward to College!!!

TSI prep (and PASS)

accuplacer-tsi-assessment-interpreting-score.pdf

accuplacer-texas-success-initiative-assessment-sample-questions.pdf

https://accuplacerpractice.collegeboard.org/login

http://www.mometrix.com/academy/tsi-test/

http://ctle.hccs.edu/gcpass/TSIPracticeTests/reading/reading.htm

http://ctle.hccs.edu/gcpass/PREP_Home.htm

shmoop

3 days.  Practice.

Adaptable.  20+ questions.  Time taken:  10a - 2p.

Passed 350 math
351 reading
363 Writing with essay or 5-8 on essay


Notes to fellow gifted homeschoolers about what I "learned" going up the the Community College

I spent the entire day up at TCC.  (Had to go home and get Haley and then go back up there so she can give "approval" for me to 'speak for her' -so 2 trips).  

I was able to connect with the BEST academic advisor (Adam Bough - homeschool Dad of 4 and 22+ years of experience at this job) and he said:

1.  Haley can sign up at 13 years old (actually, they didn't really care how old she was) provided that she takes the TSI and passes (in order to enroll into classes that require TSI).  The thing is...math classes do NOT require the TSI.  So if she successfully CLEPs college algebra, she CAN just sign up for Pre-Calculus.  No further academic hoops.  In and DONE.  

2.  It will be necessary to present a transcript that shows the student has at least junior level number of CREDITS.  It does not "matter" if your intent is to actually graduate them in 4 years, or 2 years.  And the child will be able to take classes (2 per year) until they "graduate."  

3.  If the child needs any remediation, you cannot take THAT remediation class UNLESS you graduate your child from high-school, and then sign them up as junior college students.  Also, if they want to take more than 2 classes, its a difficult task to pull-off, so you might have to 'graduate' them to do this.  [But, of course, there's no "going back" to high-school, so that is a decision that has to be well-considered].  

4.  I met with lots of people (registrar, testing, dual-enrollment specialist, academic advisor).  One, the "specialist for Dual-Enrollment - Jeannette Jones? - said that age does not matter (this is a new thing, apparently, where they just don't care how old the child is...and she mentioned they have "lots of 14 year olds walking around on campus taking classes"), but upon registration the registrar will walk the student and parent over to meet the VP of Academic Affairs so both can "sign off" on acknowledging that the child will be "among" older students.  And what this may mean - socially and safety-wise (institutional CYA).  

5.  Within the Texas system, if you take the "right" classes (for your major, etc) at the CC all the credits will transfer (some "new rule/law?") therefore the child can actually make progress towards their BA/BS...at 13 years old.  

***

Sounds like what you decide to ultimately decide is better formulated by TSI (and/or CLEP) scores (i.e. CAN the child take what they need for credit towards an advanced degree?)

And, obviously to be considered is the longer-term plan for the child and family - applying for a 4y university as a transfer vs freshman.  Both have advantages/disadvantages.  Money and scholarships (community college is less expensive and getting half of the degree done on the cheap might off-set some loss in potential freshman scholarships, etc).  WHICH schools they are able to get into as a transfer vs freshman (some schools are "easier" to get into as one or the other, freshman vs transfer).  

And my kid is considering the "brand name" of the school (which, for ME, knowing/expecting that she'll ultimately obtain a terminal degree which can be from a "more prestigious" or "elite" or "far-away" school, LATER after college, means that I am less impressed by 'brand-name.'  Especially as I try to find appropriate curriculum TODAY for her as she tells me she is "moving too slow" and is therefore bored by "everything").  

So I am exploring this option!!

I DO wonder, if she takes a year (we'll call it a dual-credit year this year 2016-2017) then graduate her in 2017 if she does well to the adjustment to college classes on campus, how difficult is it to have her apply as a transfer student to, say, UT Dallas and her likelihood of being accepted, etc?  That's what I'd like to investigate next....   

Haley 8th grade - Profoundly Gifted - Update

Haley is in 8th grade.  She is doing well, adjusting to life as a teen in the various ways teens adjust.  Transitioning from childhood to adulthood is not easy.  I am reading a few books I highly recommend that (I believe) are helping me be a better person and parent:  The Conscious Parent by Tsabary, and A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children by Webb Gore et al.

Raising adults requires you to be open, honest, and willing to made adjustments and learn about yourself.  It also requires that the parent SEES the child as the child is.  As a full, complete, personality.  These two books are helping me keep my eye on that beacon.  

I recently had Haley IQ tested and discovered that she meets criteria for PG (profoundly gifted).  I feel a little behind the curve [what took me so long to consider this, and have her tested?].  I spend quite a bit time communicating with other parents about all things "homeschooling" in the various groups of which I am apart.  One person in particular was SUPER helpful, and based on what I shared about Haley, recommended I have her tested:  "She sounds like a PG kid."  She gave me the contact information for a local examiner, and my brother paid for the testing.  When the results came back, hubby and I had to rethink our entire plan for her education and enrichment.  So....I joined even MORE groups.  One book I've come across regarding this issue is:  Genius Denied by Davidson

This book is good because it helps highlight the state of gifted education and helped me realize just how much "damage" schools are doing to the brightest children - wasting their potential.  It reinforces our decision to homeschool, and helps me articulate (better) why individualized education is so important - especially for children who are non-uniform.  

One issue I've learned about is "asynchronous development" and I realize that I have misunderstood Haley in this regard.  Now that I KNOW I am really seeing the effect of this, and making modifications.  For instance, take a look at these grades:

In math, she has her B because she did poorly on a quiz or two (the math teacher gives a quiz each class day).  Haley didn't study in depth (and thought she understood a concept that she didn't quite get fully) and on a 4 question quiz, missed 2.  50%.  Brought down her average.  This is a valuable lesson for her.  I was able to "use" this as a learning opportunity to explain to her (with real-life to 'back me up') that she needs to be methodical and consistent with math and science to master the concepts.

Regarding World History:  she is trying various "short-cuts" and hitting brick walls every single time.  Skim reading - NO.  Guessing - NO.  Studying at the last minute (or not at all) for tests - NO. Writing ONE draft of something and turning it in half-assed?  NO.  Eventhough she KNOWS what to do, she's opting to "try it her way."  And in this class, I'm allowing her to BECAUSE I know she needs to "experience the consequences" of doing it the way she's doing it.  Better to learn now, and maybe learn....

...but it bugs me nonetheless.  The silver lining?  This is a high-school honors (9th grade) class that she's taking early 2 years early.  So, if necessary, she can take it again next year - this time with all the "don't do it that way" out of her psyche.  Also, the instructor allows her to drop one score, and opt-out of one assignment (all semester) so 2 low scores going away could raise her grade significantly.  In addition to the added "bonus" of the honors scale, she could actually have a solid B in this very difficult TWO credit course!


Also, there's the option of "testing out" of some classes by demonstrating mastery after self-learning or more in-depth understanding of a course taken previously.


Overall, I am proud of her and feel that we are on target.  Recently I had a lunch meeting with a PG mom whose daughter went to college early, and is now a graduate student at 16.  That got me thinking (together with the 'recommendation' by the psychologist that evaluated Haley) that perhaps we should consider "early college" for her too.  I fretted over it, and meditated on the idea.  I even consulted this helpful guidebook:  Considering the Options:  A Guidebook for Investigating Early College Entrance. 

After consulting with Hubby, Haley, reading the book, talking to other parents....and then *realizing* the asynchrony in her development as evidenced by some of her behaviors, interests, and the grades (study habits, follow-though, diligence, etc) it was clear that Haley needs more time.  She can DO the work, academically.  But she'll require support.  There's no way she'll be ready to "do it on her own" in time for college away from home next year (or the year following). She needs time "figure things out" with regards to her study habits, decision making, prioritization, etc.  She still needs "too much help" getting the "right" things done, timely, and completely.  Which is a great thing to know.  There is no benefit in pretending that sending her off to college at 16 will yield the desired results when we can deduce otherwise from current actions.

But also, it came down to "not limiting her."  If she goes to college early, she would need more support than we can provide from afar.  So that means moving WITH her (which isn't very practical, nor fair to the other family members; and may even place a heavy burden on her), or it means she'll have to attend college close to home (limiting her to Texas schools).  So no Ivy consideration.  No HBCU.  No fencing scholarship.  And for what?  Wouldn't it be more beneficial for her to stay in high-school until 2020, graduate when she's ready, and during the last year or so of high-school she can really enjoy her time and shine in her sports/activities.  She may earn merit scholarships that may not be available (or she may not be competitive for) earlier.  And, literally, the entire world opens to her in 2020.  Why make a hasty decision just to get "college done" and then....end up with a degree that wasn't "best" for you?

So many considerations, but ultimately, I think the Universe gave us a great "sign" when her algebra quiz with the 50% just so happen to post during all this.  Combined with a drop in the World History grade from her B to a C (due to a few mistakes she made in that class).  A sign that, our goal (our curriculum, our plan of action) isn't for her to go to college early.  Or else "limit" her to nearby...

As an alternative, we are considering having her take some classes at the junior college.  And continue Hybrid school, likely until they have nothing else to offer her (so at LEAST until 2019).

Keller ISD and TCC dual-credit

http://campus.kellerisd.net/schools/chs-004/counselorscorner/Documents/KISD%20Dual%20Credit%20Presentation.pdf

There are a few college credit while in high-school programs.  This is one of them.

One consideration regarding community college is:
Haley could graduate at age 16.  Do 2 years at community college and finish an AA, while using the first 2 years to get the basic requirement under her belt on the cheap, and "wasting no time" still graduating with a bachelors degree at age 20.

Pros:  No standarized tests necessary.
Inexpensive.
She'll probably do well with the support from home.
Can still transfer to 4-year university and graduate 'on time' and continue on and do anything.

Cons:  Will she WANT to go to community college?
Why decide on this NOW and *limit* her to only this option?
This option would still cost more than a "full ride" scholarship at a 4-year university (which would only cost "living" expenses).
The "peers" at community college will differ from peers acquired at a 4-year university.